For those of you who do not know... there is a group of us who meet in Macon... all of us are first year law students... anyway the meeting have been going well with lots of talking and thinking... here is a question that one of the crew tossed out this week. I'll see if i am allowed to publish some of the thoughts that are flying back and forth with us over e-mail.
Also feel free to think and wrestle with us too... we (logos macon) are reading the posts and want to know what y'all think and how you are struggling growing, having great or not so great conversations... journey with us, please.
-n
Ansley's question
Okay, y'all...I tend to be verbose when I'm not sure how to articulate my thoughts, but I promise to try to keep this short. I guess one question that remains for me after last night is this: when do we let honesty into relationships with others? When is silence as we "build the relationship" just avoiding the topic...and when is silence condoning the behavior? Does that make sense?
I think there is a line that we tow when we're in relationships that are not based in Christianity...relationships with non-Christians, or "hypocritical" (from Monday's discussion) Christians. I guess I don't know where that line is, when you're too close, and when it's okay to cross it?
Maybe it'll help if I make this specific: I have a good friend who is not a Christian and has no interest in becoming a Christian. Some have suggested that I cut her out and move on. I disagree. But it's true that there is a certain depth that this relationship will never reach because we don't have the spiritual connection needed to reach the deepest depths. So IS there a point where you have to let these people go? Is there a point where you have to bring up the topic and force the conversation? Or is it okay to go on forever without the discussion?
When is it necessary to be honest about ourselves outloud? Not just live the light?
I hope this makes sense. Thanks, y'all.
Have a good week. - Ansley
Wednesday, March 15, 2006
Friday, March 10, 2006
Nothin' Much
Well, we don't seem to have a lot of comments on the posts so far, but it's all good. Feel free to comment if you'd like. If not, just sit back and enjoy the ride. It's been a pretty normal week for me: a couple of days with my Sudanese friends, quite a bit of time in coffee shops (even though I don't drink coffee), some time in study, a bit of time in meetings (good meetings), and most importantly some great time with God. Friday is my rest day so I went to the park and read. Then I went to a German restaurant because I was missing Europe. Good times. Tomorrow it's back to work at the coolest job in the world - helping to start new churches. See ya.
--Derik
--Derik
Thursday, March 02, 2006
Just Pondering
What role should tradition play in shaping the church? This is a question that often rolls around in my head and was recently brought to the forefront in a conversion I had with a friend. I am especially concerned with this question for two reasons:
1. I love church history and feel a very strong respect for and connection with believers who have gone before us.
2. Logos is described by many as a non-traditional church.
Let me frame the discussion. At Logos, we begin to answer the question, "What is church?" by looking at Jesus. By observing who Jesus is and the mission for which He came to earth, we are able to understand the mission of the church. Once the mission of the church is firmly grasped, forms and structures can then be implemented to achieve that mission. A few specifics are given in scripture to help guide the church (Lord's Supper, baptism, the importance of leadership, etc.), but there is relatively little discussion regarding external forms and structures. It just so happens that at Logos we believe a very simple form is the best way to pursue the particular mission God has given our church.
So here is the question: Are we at Logos actually disregarding or disrespecting church history because our forms and structures are not guided very much by church tradition? My friend says that getting one's forms and structures from scripture alone is discounting the movement of the Spirit in guiding believers who have gone before us. While I do not agree, I do recognize the temptation for each generation of church to think they have it all figured out and thus not appreciate the efforts of past generations. But are we as believers really to honor and imitate the external forms and structures of our forefathers, or is it only their faith that we are to imitate? Does anybody out there have a clue what I'm talking about? Who gets to decide which traditions to keep and which ones to let go? When is church tradition important as a link to the historical church and when does it become an empty ritual carried on because "that's the way we've always done it"? These are the weighty questions that steal sleep away from me and keep me on my knees. I would love to hear some of you thoughts on the matter (don't feel like you have to be as long-winded as me).
--Derik
1. I love church history and feel a very strong respect for and connection with believers who have gone before us.
2. Logos is described by many as a non-traditional church.
Let me frame the discussion. At Logos, we begin to answer the question, "What is church?" by looking at Jesus. By observing who Jesus is and the mission for which He came to earth, we are able to understand the mission of the church. Once the mission of the church is firmly grasped, forms and structures can then be implemented to achieve that mission. A few specifics are given in scripture to help guide the church (Lord's Supper, baptism, the importance of leadership, etc.), but there is relatively little discussion regarding external forms and structures. It just so happens that at Logos we believe a very simple form is the best way to pursue the particular mission God has given our church.
So here is the question: Are we at Logos actually disregarding or disrespecting church history because our forms and structures are not guided very much by church tradition? My friend says that getting one's forms and structures from scripture alone is discounting the movement of the Spirit in guiding believers who have gone before us. While I do not agree, I do recognize the temptation for each generation of church to think they have it all figured out and thus not appreciate the efforts of past generations. But are we as believers really to honor and imitate the external forms and structures of our forefathers, or is it only their faith that we are to imitate? Does anybody out there have a clue what I'm talking about? Who gets to decide which traditions to keep and which ones to let go? When is church tradition important as a link to the historical church and when does it become an empty ritual carried on because "that's the way we've always done it"? These are the weighty questions that steal sleep away from me and keep me on my knees. I would love to hear some of you thoughts on the matter (don't feel like you have to be as long-winded as me).
--Derik
Wednesday, March 01, 2006
So what does it look like for me to be deliberate here? Well I had just read the newsletter that had gone out for logos… and it hit me with conviction and a sense of lostness. I started asking God so what do I need to do here to make a difference, God I have gotten so wrapped up in my world, how can I reach people. God this is serious business and I have lost sight of that again. What do you want me to be what should I do… And then I hear a knock on my door and it is josh.
“You rolling with us to shamrock tonight.”
“naw I got things I need to do.”
“it smells good in here.”
“I cooked some stir fry… do you want some?”
“You serious,”
“yeah, hold on a sec”
... so josh came in and we talked… up until this point he had not told me about what went down with his girlfriend. A few weeks ago josh came over to the house and we talked for a while… he was not doing so good… anyways we had not talked since then… well josh came in the house and as I was grabbing some stir fry he started catching me up on what happened in new york… we sat down and then talked more.
“she hurt me man, she hurt me real bad. How could she do this to me. But I got to take it like a man.”
“So does taking it like a man mean, not cry or to push through it.”
“Push through it…”
As I was talking to him I thought “God what do I offer him?” I’ll pray for you seems so not adequate. Advice seems so… all I could do was tell him, encourage him to not let this destroy him? Was that even the right thing to say… forgiveness seemed like a paltry foolish thing to offer him right now… he needs to push through this… what good will the words I offer him do with out Christ? I don’t know. But after we got deep in the conversation he stopped eating, pushed his bowl away.
“I can’t eat anymore talking about her has made me sick. Thanks though”
So we stopped… he got up to go get ready to go to shamrock and he and clif just left the house.Maybe the answer to my prayer was found in that knock.Sometime I struggle here in macon. I don’t have one people group per say, I have many. How do you reach someone who is jewish and close with his family (that ties into a lot), how do you reached the churched ones. What are the words to say… I don’t know I am trying to figure that out… but when my head is on straight, and my heart is right, I want to reach people here… the question is how how how.
God help me always see the seriousness and the urgency of right now.
“You rolling with us to shamrock tonight.”
“naw I got things I need to do.”
“it smells good in here.”
“I cooked some stir fry… do you want some?”
“You serious,”
“yeah, hold on a sec”
... so josh came in and we talked… up until this point he had not told me about what went down with his girlfriend. A few weeks ago josh came over to the house and we talked for a while… he was not doing so good… anyways we had not talked since then… well josh came in the house and as I was grabbing some stir fry he started catching me up on what happened in new york… we sat down and then talked more.
“she hurt me man, she hurt me real bad. How could she do this to me. But I got to take it like a man.”
“So does taking it like a man mean, not cry or to push through it.”
“Push through it…”
As I was talking to him I thought “God what do I offer him?” I’ll pray for you seems so not adequate. Advice seems so… all I could do was tell him, encourage him to not let this destroy him? Was that even the right thing to say… forgiveness seemed like a paltry foolish thing to offer him right now… he needs to push through this… what good will the words I offer him do with out Christ? I don’t know. But after we got deep in the conversation he stopped eating, pushed his bowl away.
“I can’t eat anymore talking about her has made me sick. Thanks though”
So we stopped… he got up to go get ready to go to shamrock and he and clif just left the house.Maybe the answer to my prayer was found in that knock.Sometime I struggle here in macon. I don’t have one people group per say, I have many. How do you reach someone who is jewish and close with his family (that ties into a lot), how do you reached the churched ones. What are the words to say… I don’t know I am trying to figure that out… but when my head is on straight, and my heart is right, I want to reach people here… the question is how how how.
God help me always see the seriousness and the urgency of right now.
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